Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation

[Kraco]

Even much later in life they could still have an attachment to you that isn't completely rational.

That's called love. It's not completely rational, but it certainly helps a couple to stay together.

That's why, if you've known someone as a child you should probably just...not. In general. Like, go find someone else. There's a whole world full of people out there. You don't gotta fuck family members, friends' partners, people you knew as kids, etc.

Again though, this doesn't doesn't actually apply to Rudy. Because he's actually in his 40s. But, again, they don't know that.

It's certainly sound advice in our world because if one is already an adult when the other is still a small kid, the age difference is pretty huge. That being said, Roxy didn't even recognise Rudeus initially, so you can hardly say she would have fallen for the child Rudeus and then only kept waiting for him to reach the marriageable age. Furthermore, it's not our world. I don't remember if it has been mentioned, but isn't it possible Roxy will still live much longer than Rudeus, not being a human, despite already being a lot older in absolute numbers? If I had to guess, she's still probably a young adult, just like Rudeus.

Since this series takes place in a fantasy world, you need to keep it in mind. If some non-human lives for 200-300 years, it's better not to limit them so strictly to what would be the common sense for humans, who might last 70 years in that world. Among Roxy's own people, a couple with 30 years of age difference might still live 200 years together, married. Though like I said, I don't remember if her kind's life expectancy has been mentioned.

Lastly, it would be pretty sad and even insulting for Rudeus if Roxy told him that since she knew him for a little while back when he was a child, she won't ever date him. Even though she didn't even recognise him as an adult, initially, and clearly saw him as an attractive stranger appearing to rescue her. It would be a clearly dishonest rejection.

[DarthEnderX]

Since this series takes place in a fantasy world, you need to keep it in mind.

I really don't. Because it's a fantasy world created by a writer, and that writer is from our world.

"I wrote a story about fucking kids, but it's okay, because it's about fantasy world where it's okay to fuck kids." wouldn't fly.

Lastly, it would be pretty sad and even insulting for Rudeus if Roxy told him that since she knew him for a little while back when he was a child, she won't ever date him.

"I know it was inappropriate, but I didn't want them to be sad" doesn't seem like it'd hold up either. It's not telling them they can't have a cookie before dinner.

[Kraco]

I really don't. Because it's a fantasy world created by a writer, and that writer is from our world.

"I wrote a story about fucking kids, but it's okay, because it's about fantasy world where it's okay to fuck kids." wouldn't fly.

What kids? Rudeus is already a married adult as it is. All I said is that the age gap is not an issue because it's a fantasy world. If Roxy was a human, she would be a middle-aged person already, while Rudeus is a very young adult.

[DarthEnderX]

What kids?

That's just an example. I mean the excuse of "it's a fictional world where they say that horrible thing is okay, so it makes that horrible thing okay" doesn't magically give it a pass, regardless of what travesty you want to plug in there.

For example, all the isekai that are like "We have slavery, and slavery is good and the slaves love being your slaves!" You don't just have to shrug and go "Oh well! That's that world!". Like, no! That's not just a reality that happened and you just have to accept it! Somebody WROTE that world to be that way! Someone sat down and created a world where people just love being slaves. And you don't have to give that writer a pass for that. Because it's fucking weird!

So does this apply to ALL things that would be illegal in our world or do you just want to forbid this specific thing?

I'm not looking to "forbid" anything. I'm just not willing to cut a character slack just because an awful thing is a normal part of their world.

For example, Game of Thrones world has a lot of slavery. But GoT doesn't ever try and pretend that slavery is good. It's a bad thing that bad people profit from. It's a part of that world, but the stories don't pretend it's okay just because it's a part of that world.

[MFauli]

That's just an example. I mean the excuse of "it's a fictional world where they say that horrible thing is okay, so it makes that horrible thing okay" doesn't magically give it a pass, regardless of what travesty you want to plug in there.

For example, all the isekai that are like "We have slavery, and slavery is good and the slaves love being your slaves!" You don't just have to shrug and go "Oh well! That's that world!". Like, no! That's not just a reality that happened and you just have to accept it! Somebody WROTE that world to be that way! Someone sat down and created a world where people just love being slaves. And you don't have to give that writer a pass for that. Because it's fucking weird!

I'm not looking to "forbid" anything. I'm just not willing to cut a character slack just because an awful thing is a normal part of their world.

For example, Game of Thrones world has a lot of slavery. But GoT doesn't ever try and pretend that slavery is good. It's a bad thing that bad people profit from. It's a part of that world, but the stories don't pretend it's okay just because it's a part of that world.

Go back 150 years and slavery would have been LITERALLY okay in our real world and nobody would call it a bad thing (well, nobody but the slaves, although they probably had a lot of internalized self-depreciation, too). And then you have issues with a fantasy-story depicting slaves as something that's okay? Where some slaves are happy? I mean, if we take Shield Hero for example, the anime also depicted slavery as something that mistreats slaves. It's just that the hero treats his slave nicely. Ofc, the raccoon girl also is a dumb bitch who's falling in love with her master, lol.

In general, I really dislike your stance, because it's so limiting of creative freedom. As a creative freedom absolutist, I'd love to see more stories that break taboos which includes different depictions of age of consent. I mean, it's always weird when you have a fantasy world but SOMEHOW age of consent is 18 years old, "coincidentitally" the same as in a minority of US-states (it's actually 16 in most, and even lower in many European countries). We know from history that princesses were wed to older lords at the age of 11 or 12 and had sex then, too, as soon as it became aware that they were able to get pregnant. It was fucked up, sure. But why can't FICTION depict a story where age of consent is different? That's such a weird, prudish, authoritarian demand imo.

One of my favorite moments in manga is when near the end of Gantz, the heroes get to some alien planet where humans are eaten by giant aliens and it's the most normal thing. Fucked up, right? But extremely FASCINATING, too!

I just think that accusing the author of anything because of what he wrote is unfair. If you did that, then all those authors who wrote violent stories should be seen as potential murderers. Makes no sense, though. It's fiction.

I think if you take something from the real world that is generally considered bad, then create a fictional world where that bad thing is considered okay, and you expect the reader to be okay with it because it's okay in that world(i.e. it's not meant as a subversion, where you're trying to show the horrors of a world that approves of that bad thing) then the writer is basically endorsing that bad thing.

That's in insane take, wow. Fuck creative freedom, huh?

[shinta|hikari]

That's in insane take, wow. Fuck creative freedom, huh?

I wouldn't go so far as insane, but it is a fairly extreme stance. Writing about something, even if you aren't critical or subversive about it, does not mean the author endorses it. It might just be a tool for the plot or really just something different for the sake of novelty. It can even be wish fulfillment like smut and other sex fantasies. That does not mean the author endorses these things in real life. Fiction is largely about escapism, after all.

[MFauli]

I wouldn't go so far as insane, but it is a fairly extreme stance. Writing about something, even if you aren't critical or subversive about it, does not mean the author endorses it. It might just be a tool for the plot or really just something different for the sake of novelty. It can even be wish fulfillment like smut and other sex fantasies. That does not mean the author endorses these things in real life. Fiction is largely about escapism, after all.

Like, every author or video game maker of violent projects would have to suspected for planning murder, lol. All those horror movies full of brutal, realistic gore => writers are psycho-killers in spe!!11 /s

Fiction ultimately is always about "what if ...", that's what makes it interesting. If we have a story where "grooming" is okay, where slavery is okay or where the age of consent is lower than irl, that makes for interesting scenarios, that allow stories to explore what it'd be like. ESPECIALLY when it's an isekai-story where someone from our real world is confronted with these different norms. And there shouldn't be any obligations on the writer to have the hero behave only one way.

Hero is reborn in world where slavery is okay. Now he can react in various ways:

- "OMG, are you insane? Slavery is wrong!!111"
- "Omg, this world is fucked up. I need to get back asap!"
- "Damn these people, I can't let this stay as is. Gotta find a way to end slavery, it's the right thing to do!"
- "Fuck, I'm powerless for now. But I can at least accept that slave the lord gave me and treat her well."
- "Well, this a different world. And having a servant isn't so bad."
- "Hm, now that I think about it, she's kinda cute. But I must behave." *slave girl falls in love with hero*
- "Wait, 'tis for real? And I'm allowed to do aaaaanything I want to her? BUENO...!"

And ANY of these should be okay to write, without accusing the author of anything. All these taboos are the reason why movies and video games are so goddamn boring nowadays. Heroes aren't even allowed to slap an unsuspecting girl on the butt anymore without outrage. Breaking taboos => more exciting stories <3

[MFauli]

I really don't. Because it's a fantasy world created by a writer, and that writer is from our world.

"I wrote a story about fucking kids, but it's okay, because it's about fantasy world where it's okay to fuck kids." wouldn't fly..

So does this apply to ALL things that would be illegal in our world or do you just want to forbid this specific thing?